Water Damage Prevention

In this episode of URMIA Matters, host Julie Groves, Director of Risk Services at Wake Forest University, interviews Heather Banules, Director of Insurance and Claims Administration, University of Michigan - Ann Arbor, Bret Bush, EVP, Field Operations, Insight Risk Technologies, and Ted Way, Senior Vice President, Gallagher. Together, they tackle the crucial topic of water damage prevention on higher education campuses. They discuss the importance of regular risk assessments to pinpoint vulnerabilities in campus buildings, while highlighting the need for comprehensive prevention tools and equipment.  Meanwhile, they share preventive measures like routine plumbing maintenance, installation of water sensors, and thorough inspections during construction and maintenance projects. They stress the significance of having a robust emergency response plan, complete with clear communication protocols and designated response teams. This episode of URMIA Matters provides insights, offering proactive steps that higher education institutions can take to safeguard their campuses and ensure operational continuity. 

Show Notes

What College & University Risk Managers Need to Know About Water Damage Prevention & Response Plans

Guests

Heather Banules, Director of Insurance and Claims Administration - University of Michigan, Ann Arbor

Bret Bush, EVP Field Operations - Insight Risk Technologies LLC

Ted Way, Senior Vice President - Gallagher

Host

Julie Groves, Director, Risk Services - Wake Forest University

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Transcript

Jenny Whittington: [00:00:00] Hey there. Thanks for tuning in to URMIA Matters, a podcast about higher education, risk management, and insurance. Let's get to it. 

Julie Groves: Hi, everyone. I'm Julie Groves, the Director of Risk Services at Wake Forest University, and I'll be your host for this episode of URMIA Matters. Today, we're gonna be talking all about water damage prevention and mitigation, and we'll cover the hidden cost of water damage, what to do about aging infrastructure, mitigating weather risks, the role of technology, and a whole lot more. So, joining me today are Bret Bush from Insight Risk Technologies, Ted Way from Gallagher. And Heather Banuels, the Director of Insurance and Claims Administration, also known as ICA, at the University of Michigan. So, welcome to the podcast today, y'all. Good to see you. Before we dive into our conversation, why don't you each tell us a [00:01:00] little bit about yourself? So, Bret, I'll start with you.  

Bret Bush: Yeah. Great, thanks. Appreciate the opportunity to be here. I am the co-founder of Insight Risk Technologies. We are an insurance organization that places insurance for universities, institutions and such, and commercial businesses. But what's unique about us is we use Internet of Things technology to help prevent claims. This company came out of my work as one of the founders of the IOT Innovation Lab at the Hartford Insurance Company, where we were doing the very same thing. And then previously, I was on the innovation team at Hartford's Team Boiler Munich Re. So, I've been using technology to help enhance our customers' businesses and assets for about 10 years now. 

Julie Groves: Wake Forest was with Hartford for many, many years. It's a great, great company. So, welcome, Bret. Good to see you. So, Ted, what's your background?  

Ted Way: Thanks. I am part of Gallagher's National Construction Practice, so what that means is all I do day in and day out [00:02:00] is insurance for construction projects across the US with universities and large general contractors, airports, municipalities, et cetera. I've been with Gallagher for eight years at this point. Prior to that, I was on the insurance company side as an underwriter for both Hanover and Liberty Mutual.  

Julie Groves: Great. Well, welcome. Good to see you. Finally, Heather, why don't you give us a little bit about yourself? Tell us a little bit.  

Heather Banuels: Thank you. So, Heather Banuels, I'm from the University of Michigan. I'm the Director of Insurance and Claims administration. The university is self-insured and self-administers the claims. And so, having to an opportunity to partner with Gallagher as our broker and look at different ways to mitigate all of the risks that we have, not only in our Central Ann Arbor campus, but across all of our satellite campuses, in our health system, gives us a lot of work that we have to do in a lot of area that we have to cover. 

Julie Groves: I bet there's quite a lot to deal with up there. So, thank you for hopping on to talk with us today about this [00:03:00] really important topic that I think a lot of people will be interested in hearing about. So, let's jump right in with the big question. So, Ted, why is water damage one of the most expensive risks that universities face, that universities face and, you know, how does it go just beyond just repair costs? 

Ted Way: Yeah, I think, you know, water damage itself is typically a much bigger issue than you think it is when you first have a claim, right? So, it has this ability to balloon into an extremely large claim, but there are costs that universities are paying that maybe you don't have such great insight into. And particularly, as it comes to construction, which is what I can talk about, is that we are seeing increasing deductibles across the board and we are seeing rates increasing as well. Universities don't typically get insight into how much of every dollar they spend on insurance is created by the insurer trying to pass or, or, or fund for water damage losses. [00:04:00] And how much is the university paying in terms of a, a general contractor's insurance policy to pre-fund what could be large deductibles as well? You know, I think Bret has a lot of data on this, this as well, but water damage is undoubtedly the number one concern from every builder's risk insurer, regardless of product type across the United States. And so, we're seeing the market react in ways that it traditionally does, which is higher deductibles and higher rates. And so, we're looking at ways, you know, and universities need to be looking at ways, to present a different story to the market rather than, we just expect we're gonna have water damage claims.  

Julie Groves: It's not just a big issue in construction, right? It's a big issue with just existing property, you know, and I mean, we've had a couple of unfortunate claims at Wake Forest, and, you know, it is, you just can never tell how it's gonna all kind of pan out because water is so intrusive and it can cause damage in places you didn't ever think it was [00:05:00] going to be causing damage. So, Heather. Many universities have aging buildings and systems, and I'm not saying that the University of Michigan does, I'm just saying in general. So, what are the biggest vulnerabilities and how can they be addressed proactively in your opinion?  

Heather Banuels: Well, I can tell you that the University of Michigan is being 200 years old, does have a lot of buildings that are quite old over at least a century old, if not going on 200 years old. So, not only do we have the infrastructure issues in our older buildings, we have issues with deferred maintenance, which is a risk across many universities. On top of that, Ann Arbor being a very urban area and all of the building and construction, not only for the campus, but for the community and city around, creates a lot of unique challenges. So, we have to partner very closely with the city, and especially on new construction buildings. And as the university expands beyond the footprint of Ann Arbor, [00:06:00] especially with our health system, as we reach more of those areas with less access and the need for access to healthcare, we are building new areas. And that construction is either remodeling old buildings that we have no history or knowledge of the infrastructure that was there, or we're building from the ground up. So, we have a lot of different stakes risks that we're looking into within the construction areas and the renovating of our buildings that we guys currently have.  

Bret Bush: Yeah. Julie, I would to, I think to your point, you know, water damage loss is the number one cause of loss. You know, to Ted's point in both construction, but also in property. And I think higher ed presents a unique, you know, environment in that those buildings are not completely occupied all the time. Right? There's periods of time where those buildings are unoccupied, and that is a very unique risk that I think that higher ed has outside of an office building or a condo building or a hospital, you know, all those other occupancies. So, I think, you know, [00:07:00] you're seeing the water damage losses on the institutional, the higher ed side, because people are not there and then something goes wrong and then they show up. And I think to your point, very importantly too, it's not just repairing that water damages. Okay, now you're out of use of this building for how long? Three, six, like months a year? And what do we do with everything that we wanted to happen in that building? Now we've gotta move it somewhere else. So, it's not just, it's not just that property damage, it's the delays and the coordination that has to come along with that. That can be very, very expensive and time-consuming. 

Julie Groves: And to your point about, you know, buildings being unoccupied some of the time, I mean, obviously there are times when, you know, universities are closed for holidays or during the summer and they're, you know, that's pretty obvious. But have you seen kind of an uptick in issues because buildings are not as occupied by employees since COVID? Are you seeing, you know, because I fee, it seems like before COVID, all buildings were always, all the employees always had to [00:08:00] be there. And now there's so many options for employees to work, you know, either hybrid or remotely. And so, have you been seeing an uptick in that as well?  

Bret Bush: 100%. Yeah, I think that there's been a lot of consolidation too, where universities have taken stuff that was going on in varied, you know, varying places and tried to consolidate into, you know, a more central location for that reason exactly. So, you're not completely spread out. And we're, we've already got this building, let's a hundred percent use this building and keep these areas or these buildings, you know, less occupied. And that's exactly what's happening. I think remote work has had a tremendous effect on that, of course. You know, if you have something that goes wrong and there's people around, you can usually get a response to it fairly quickly, but if nobody sees it and nobody knows what's going on, and you've got a huge problem,  

Ted Way: I think it's, I'll just weigh in here. I think it's a really good point, and that for most perils, we have warning signs that let us know something's going on, right? We have fire alarms. We know there's a hurricane coming. We know there's a tornado. Water has this interesting thing that it can be [00:09:00] caused by outside events or inside events. And the risk of water damage increases the more we protect against other perils. For instance, the more we protect ourselves against fire, the more water damage risk we create. And so, without those warning systems, those warning bells, those alarms, or just focusing on, you know, catastrophic geographic risk, we have a lot of areas where water can affect property. So, if there aren't people there that needs, you know, to Bret's point, there needs to be some other way to know what's going on. 

Julie Groves: Mm-hmm. Exactly. So, you know, you can't turn on the news without seeing coverage of some extreme weather event. You know, somewhere it seems like, you know, it's getting, you know, more and more challenging. So, and you, you know, Heather, how would you suggest universities prepare for weather-related or water-related weather events like hurricanes, or tip, tropical storms, below freezing temperatures, and things like that? What suggestions do you have?  

Heather Banuels: So, I think just looking at, at everything. So, [00:10:00] fortunately, we've got the Great Lakes, but we don't have hurricanes, but we are seeing an increase in the number of ice events. I know Northern Michigan just had the worst ice event on history and, you know, ice melts, right? So, as the weather changes, that water's gotta go somewhere and it's gonna cause some challenges. We've seen increases in the amount of rainfall from climate change. So, I think universities just understanding that just because they're in one area, you may be immune to a hurricane, but you may not be immune to the after effects. Right? We saw that last year in the South with the hurricanes that affected other areas that we would not have normally thought would be impacted. So, I think we just have to be prepared as much as we can for the unexpected and not think that we aren't vulnerable to any type of weather system that is out there, because there is just such a different climate change that we're seeing and the effects of that climate change are [00:11:00] manifesting in all different ways, especially rain, ice, water, and those type of hazards. 

Julie Groves: Well, and I, I live in North Carolina and fortunately, my area wasn't affected by the hurricane that came through last fall, but there are a lot of areas in western North Carolina, a lot of universities, that were affected. And so, you know, to your point, what do you tell a university who says, oh, well, I don't live near the Great Lakes. I don't live near the ocean. You know, I don't need to worry about something like that affecting me. You know, as I, I mean, I hope the universities in western North Carolina had a plan, but if they don't, I mean, what do you suggest? And any of you can weigh in. Do you suggest that, that these institutions sit down and think about the worst case scenario? Or what do you, how do you think it's helpful to plan when it, when you really have never had there, there's no precedent for something that's happening? You know, like things that are like that are happening now.  

Heather Banuels: I think it's really important for universities to really think through their plans. They have to do those worst [00:12:00] case scenarios, right? Every risk manager should be planning for assumptions of different types of losses. And I think you have to take that through and look at it. What is the worst case scenario, not only from a property damage perspective, but also from a business interruption and that business continuity plan? I think a lot of times the business interruption and the continuity of that revenue generating ability is often missed and overlooked, when we're looking at just that property damage and the restoration of the physical property. And I think that's really important. And looking at any way that you can mitigate the challenges that arise from the different situations. Like Insight is something that we should be, we should be looking at, right? If we're leveraging technology in all other aspects across the, a campus, or a health system, an academic health system, we should absolutely be using that technology and those advances for our own purposes. 

Julie Groves: And every time I have a conversation with [00:13:00] somebody about these, I think also like, how can I put this in at my house? You know what I mean? Like it's just, I mean, it's hard to kind of not bring that in personally. You know, you're doing all this stuff where you work because your institution's important, but also, you know, I'm always trying to figure out how I can monitor things at home. So, Bret, tell us about environmental sensors and water flow meters and shutoff valves. You know, how can these things help universities better detect and prevent water damage before it just gets too bad?  

Bret Bush: Yeah, these are the tools of age, right? And so, this is still, and we understand this, and Ted and I worked very closely on the construction-related risk. And then also, we worked very closely with a number of different institutions and real estate property owners on the property side as well too. This is still a people business, you know, somebody has to do something, take some action. But what we've done with these tools, whether it's, you know, monitoring for water detection, temperature, humidity, which are very important, and also, the flow [00:14:00] monitoring devices as you mentioned. These are tools. What we do is we at Insight make these tools available to the people that can actually take action and, to your point, either prevent something from happening or mitigate it from get being a, a massive problem. So, if we can prevent a frozen pipe, because we're monitoring temperature in these critical areas, that's important. There's a lot of frozen, 40% of all water damage claims are frozen pipes. So, let's monitor for temperature. And when that temperature drops below 40 degrees, you know, a bunch of people are gonna get a text message and they gotta go do something, you know, turn on the heat, close that door that was left open, close that window that was left open. We all have stories around stuff like that. Flow monitoring, same thing. You know, if at two o'clock in the morning, you know, flow through a pipe is supposed to be at zero, 'cause there's nobody in the building and nothing going on. It's not a dorm, it's, you know, it's a non-dorm building. I mean, all of a sudden it spikes to 20 gallons a minute, somebody needs to know that, 'cause something's probably going wrong. So, having that tool that's monitoring all [00:15:00] those things. Shut off valves, so, you have the ability to turn off when you do get that alert. Hey, flow, there's a water flow anomaly in this building in this area. Do you want to turn the water off? 

You can press a button right on your mobile device, turn that water off, and then get someone out there or go out there yourself and say, okay, what happened here? I need to see what's going on before I might do anything further. And what's crushed the insurance industry, both in property insurance and to Ted's point, builder's risk insurance, is water damage claims because you could be cruising along and everything's going fine. And then all of a sudden there's a $10 million, there's a $5 million, here's a $15 million water damage loss that wipes out everything. And to Ted's point earlier as well, all the insurance companies have done is raise the rates and raise deductibles, which doesn't solve the problem. We've got to be able to be monitoring, you know, much like you do for security, when you have cameras, you've got to be monitoring things, so that you can alert someone to take action when something does arise. And that's the beauty of [00:16:00] this Internet of Things technology is that's what it does. It's becoming very affordable. It's very low maintenance. It's very easy to use, and so that makes it an almost a no-brainer for an institution to start implementing this on both the construction side, but also on the property side. 

Julie Groves: So, we've touched on it a little bit, but let's talk a little bit more about prevention and response plans. And I'll just throw this out to all three of you. You know, what do you all think are the essential components of an effective water damage prevention and response plan? And how can universities make sure that they're ready to respond in these types of situations? I'll just throw it out to whoever wants to respond.  

Bret Bush: Go ahead, Ted. You've got this. 

Ted Way: Yeah, sure. 

Bret Bush: He's advising, he's telling them they gotta have this stuff in place.  

Ted Way: No, I tell. I tell them they have to have it, and then I wait for them to create it. I think as with any plan, and Bret mentioned this, we're dealing with humans, right? And so, there needs to be an [00:17:00] approach developed at a higher level, understanding all the risks. And then there needs to be an easy to execute, grab and go plan. Particularly, if we're talking about construction sites, right? I think construction lends itself a little bit that you can pass off that responsibility and some to your construction manager at risk or to your general contractor. But when we're consulting with those parties, the key thing is that there is a toolkit. On every floor the same way you have a fire extinguisher to put out fires, right? That's gonna be a bucket. That might be a shop vac. You know where the water shutoff valves are. There's a quick reference guide in those toolkits. So, the idea is if you notice moisture, if you notice water, if something's happening, it could be as bad as someone knocks off a sprinkler head and that's not hard to miss. Or it could be you see water pooling in a certain area. It is a step-by-step guide that everyone from a laborer to a foreman to a superintendent can execute. 

And they are staggered, these buckets or these toolkits, are staggered throughout the project site at intervals, similar to fire extinguishers. The key in [00:18:00] water is response time, as I think Bret can talk about, right? So, being able to understand waters where it's not supposed to be and we know what to do, and making that easy to understand for the people that boots on the ground, that's the most important thing. You can have a great thing in writing. The 25 page ethos on how to prevent water damage claims, and that's important as well as it informs the culture of the organization. But you need these grab and go kits. You need these easy to access devices or sets. 

Bret Bush: So, go ahead, Heather. You had a really good point about being prepared for anything. 

Heather Banuels: Yeah, and I'll expand on what Ted said. And you know, the university often will have the, will control the builder's risk. And you know, we're looking at those alternative risk transfer funding opportunities for construction projects. But in situations where the university is controlling that builder's risk, we have a vested interest in making sure that the construction site is well-maintained and that those emergency protocols and response are important and studied and everybody knows. So, I think it's also important that as the construction sites, those plans are [00:19:00] built out, that the risk managers are also aware and making sure that everybody does have that adequate training and that you've got your insured property well-protected. 

Julie Groves: Great point. Did you have anything to add?  

Bret Bush: Yeah, no, they, they nailed it a hundred percent. I think communication is the key, you know, everybody knows what they're supposed to do, is the biggest obstacle. I think to Ted's point, I've showed up on university campuses and asked them, you know, where the shutoff valves, and nobody knew where the shutoff valves were. That scares me. So, just having that information and communicating it to the right people, that's a number one for sure.  

Julie Groves: I'm sure that you all have some very interesting examples of, I mean, I, I have some that happen at my own university and very random things, but, you know, do you have any examples you can share about how significant water damage events at universities, you know, how they happened and, but a prevent, a prevention and response plan really kind of helped make the event not as bad as it could have been? 

Heather Banuels: Well, I can share [00:20:00] one story that was a great lesson learned for the university. So, a couple of years ago as we were getting ready to close up some of the residence halls because the students had gone home for the end of the fall semester and there was some maintenance that was being done to lock up and close up the dorms, we had an employee who decided to have a smoke break against policy. So, he opened up one of the windows and one of the door rooms, had his cigarettes, and when he was done, he walked away completely, forgot to close the window. Everything was shut down and we had a really, really bad ice storm, and it was one of our largest property losses because of all of the rain and ice and water that seeped in that was weather-related. In terms of an example that I can share from a construction project we have and where we talk about that risks of other businesses and affiliated entities. [00:21:00] We had a situation last summer where the city of Ann Arbor was building, had a construction site, and somebody at the construction site did not know where the shutoff valve was. So, there was a water leak and that all ran out. It took several minutes, I wanna say upwards of 30 minutes, to get that water shut off. All of that water went downhill as it does, and entered into drains. And then we had a really bad few days of torrential downpours and it caused significant flooding in one of our parking lots. And there were 37 vehicles that were lost as a result of that.  

Julie Groves: Were they university vehicles or all different like private vehicles?  

Heather Banuels: All different university vehicles, student vehicles, visitor vehicles, contractors. So, it was a good mix of vehicles that were damaged. So, that was a, a very recent loss that we experienced. 

Julie Groves: [00:22:00] Yeah, I mean, it's staggering sometimes to think about, you know, as we've already said, I mean, water, you know, causes, it just goes everywhere, and it just can cause so many issues.  

Ted Way: And I think I, I can jump in on, on a couple. I think it's hard to prove a negative, right? Which is a good thing, right? I'm not gonna try not to jinx anything. The projects that we have that have, you know, predominantly inside technology, but other water damage technology have not suffered water damage claims that resulted in a need to report that to the carrier, right? So, they were all caught early and relatively small. I think there is an aspect that Bret mentioned, humidity, which is something every time he says it, it reminds me that humidity or dampness or dryness and temperature is a traditionally non-covered apparel that your builder's risk is not gonna respond to that. And we had a situation where the power was cut into a project that was completely dried in. The contractor was not around. It was a particularly humid time in a humid day. And for about a week, the air [00:23:00] conditioning units weren't running and there were units in each, there were micro splits, or mini splits in a bunch of these units. And there was a substantial buildup of humidity and that moisture damage to drywall, it caused the laminate flooring to kind of buckle. And that was a multimillion dollar claim. Right? And there was nowhere to go with that claim. Right? But that is a perfect example of if there was a humidity or, or a moisture monitor in those units, or even in one, someone would've gotten the signal. But, hey, we got a problem here.  

Bret Bush: We had a very similar one to a Midwestern institution in the summer. They brought in all the carpet cleaners to clean the carpet, and so all the carpet cleaners came in and did their job. They turned the air conditioning, so it was nice and cool while they were working in there. And then when they left, they turned the air conditioning off, and it created such a huge mold issue with the heat of the Midwest and the humidity from the carpets being wet. And they had a massive, massive claim, I think, I'm sure every university risk [00:24:00] managers probably had something similar to that. That, that was really a bad one. 

Julie Groves: Well, and I think, you know, I won't go into the details of ours, but I think in the, in the couple that Wake Forest has had, you know, having any kind of monitoring on these would not have prevented them. And so, you know, they always say that the way you respond to an incident really defines how, you know, people think about the incident. And so, you know, I think this goes to the point that we were talking about earlier is, you know, if you can't prevent it, you know, have response plans available. So, that everybody knows, okay, this has happened and we couldn't have done anything to prevent it, but let's, you know, shut it down as quickly as possible. So, you know, making sure that you have things on the front end and the back end are, are really important. So, you know, universities historically have the reputation of being kind of siloed in what their duties are and, you know, and so in this kind of [00:25:00] situation, you know, it's important for facilities, teams, and risk managers, and, and employees to play a role in, you know, managing, you know, these issues and the response to them. And so, how can you know, Heather, I will ask you this, since you're our university representative. And you know, you represent all universities in the United States, as you say this, just so you know, no pressure. But speaking for all. Yeah, speaking for everyone. How can universities create a culture of shared responsibility in situations like this? 

Heather Banuels: The key is collaboration and communication. I speak with my facilities managers, and the emergency response teams, the safety planning, the life safety planning. You have to continue to have constant conversations and communication with them and collaboration, so that you all stay on the same page. Speaking for all of the universities, right, we have to have risk [00:26:00] managers everywhere. It can't just be the risk management office. You have to work with the facilities folks and say, you guys are risk managers. The emergency response teams, they're risk managers, right? So, it's the training and education to them about that response. And when there is a situation that happens, not just communicating up, but communicating out. Making sure that those plans are effective. And that everybody is getting the same information. And sometimes that is hard in a large institution like the University of Michigan, but it's something that if you have that ongoing collaboration, you have those ongoing planning meetings and discussions, it's something that does mitigate the risk when the loss does occur. 

Bret Bush: I'll expand on that too. Julie, real quick. To me, what I see, where I see the ball drop most is exactly what Heather's saying is the why. You know, why are you asking us to do this? Why are we doing this? Like if you can explain to them why you're implementing these policies and why they are [00:27:00] risk managers, they'll get it a lot faster than, no, you just have to do this because this is your job. That doesn't work. 

Julie Groves: Right. 

Bret Bush: They, help 'em understand, and that's that communication part, I think.  

Julie Groves: And helping people understand, you know, at least from where I am, you know, I think a lot of times people think that I come in after there's been a problem, 'cause I'll do the insurance. You know, and sort of helping people have a, a shift in their thinking of, well, we wanna kind of do what everything we can we before, so we're not having to file an insurance claim. You know, so I think it's helping people. It's reorienting what they think about, you know, to your point, Heather, that they're a risk manager too. So, and, you know, working in universities, budget constraints are always a concern. Now, I'll just throw this out to any of you. How can universities prioritize and implement cost-effective water damage mitigation strategies? You know, because I will say I made, to your earlier point, Ted, you know, we add all these things [00:28:00] to prevent other types of perils and, you know, cre, adding those creates situations for water loss. But, you know, the administration is very, you know, aware of things like fire suppression systems because every, you know, fire is such a frightening thing. And so, there are situations where, you know, administrators may say, well, we have all our buildings protected by sprinklers, so we don't, why do we need to think about, you know, doing anything with water prevention? So, what advice do you have to help universities sort of prioritize implementing these strategies? 

Ted Way: I think there's kind of a few responsibilities here, right? I think the insurance market has a responsibility to recognize and reward risk mitigating behaviors, right? And that needs to be reflected in reduced insurance premiums and lower deductibles. I think we're making progress on that front. And I think we're kind of at an inflection point where the cost of the technology, just on the dollars and cents basis, is offset by savings and [00:29:00] premium, at least in the builder's risk market. We're getting there. I think for universities that maintain large deductibles on their operating property program. I think it is a pretty simple loss-pick analysis, an actuarial analysis, and that there is substantial data showing that the technology works. If it doesn't prevent, it at least tells you and you can respond. Making it a far less severe event in terms of water damage. And it doesn't take more than one of those prevented $5 million claims to make the technology well worth it. Right? As Bret had mentioned, the cost has come down dramatically. We expect that to continue to be the case. That's the case with all technology products, right? 

I can't remember, is it Warren's law or something, where it comes down by X percent every seven years or something. So, I think, you know, there's a responsibility on the insurance industry to recognize these risk mitigating behaviors and reward those behaviors and encourage those behaviors. I don't think it needs to be in the same vein of mandating those behaviors because, you know, there needs to [00:30:00] be a carrot and a stick there. I think we're working towards that. And I think universities, if they have looked at it or they looked at it 5 years ago or 10 years ago, it's worth looking at it again because. It is a very cost-effective solution implementing monitoring technology. Like it doesn't have to be, we go and put auto shutoff valves on every water line that we have, right? On every domestic water. It can be as simple as we're gonna put some monitoring technology in susceptible areas and areas where water tends to pool, if we have a water event. Or, you know, to take the open window from the University of Michigan, we're gonna just put some temperature sensors and trap the build and pick up, oh wow, we have a huge temperature drop. We need to go figure out what's going on, what's causing rain.  

Bret Bush: That's the myth. That's the myth for sure. Everybody felt like they were having to buy a Ferrari, you know? And that's not the point. You know, you can get a lot of bang for your buck with the Chevy, and then you can build on that. You don't have to start with the most extensive, thorough, complex technology [00:31:00] solution. You can start with the basics and then build on that as you see the success from that program.  

Julie Groves: So, tell us, Bret, what's kind of coming down the pipe here? What's next? And water damage prevention, technology, and risk management? And how you, how can universities kind of stay ahead of the curve on that? 

Bret Bush: Yeah. You know, I speak all over the country on this subject to many different types of groups. And you know, for four or five years I was the belle of the ball because I was talking about Internet of Things. And, and now I've been pushed down a level because of AI. Now AI is the new buzzword, right? I think there's something there that AI is going to be very instrumental in helping us predict and prevent events from happening. And then taking the data that we're getting off of these devices. I think this is really critical. All these devices that are deployed out there, whether they're environmental sensors with temperature and humidity and water detection, to Ted's point flow monitoring, flow monitoring with shutoff, other types of rate [00:32:00] of rise, smoke, whatever, all these different kinds of stuff, all that data that's coming off of those devices, we think there's some gold in there. There's some nuggets in there, and AI and data analytics is gonna help us find those pun-intended insights in feeding those back to Ted, so he can then feed them back to his client and say, hey, we're noticing something here. 

Like, you know, 50% of your water events are occurring on Tuesdays after two o'clock in the afternoon. Why is that? You know, we can start to hone in on, on prevention even better using data analytics and AI. So, that's where I think it's going. I think cameras being able to identify things with cameras. We, if we could get to a point where we can put very inexpensive cameras in these areas that can notice water, that also could monitor humidity and temperature at the same time and use all of that data to say, here's what's going on in this room or this area at this point in time. I think [00:33:00] that would be very helpful. And it could be classrooms, it could be offices, it can be a boiler room, a pump room, whatever that might be. Having that data, knowing what's going on there, and then having AI, you know, analyze that, and say, here's something weird that's going on, I think that could be very, very valuable. 

Julie Groves: Well, we'll just have to stay tuned and see what comes our way. So, well, this has just been a really helpful discussion. I'm sure we could sit and talk about this for another 30 minutes. But I hope that this will kind of help our listeners think through their own prevention and response strategies and prompt them to make any necessary updates or changes. And Bret wrote a really helpful insights article on this topic, and we're gonna put a link to that article in our show notes. So, before we close, any final thoughts you wanna share to our listeners?  

Bret Bush: Heather, you first.  

Heather Banuels: I'll just share that looking at technology in any way we can is important. It is only going to enhance the communication [00:34:00] and collaboration, which are critical for universities that are facing risks, especially when it comes to water intrusion and losses from water. 

Ted Way: Yeah, I'd say, you know, look for partners that are, are seeking out solutions. Whether that be in your construction or your contractor base or whoever, I think there's a lot of talking about the problems and the issues, and there are folks out there trying to put solutions forward like Bret and his team and seek those people out. 

Julie Groves: Okay. We'll give you the final word, Bret.  

Bret Bush: Yeah, I would say learn as much as you can to Ted's point. Don't go it alone. We're happy to share and be transparent with everything that we've learned and everything that we're doing to try and resolve this issue. We really want to stop water damage claims, so anything we can do to help from an educational and awareness standpoint. We're more than happy to share at any point in time. And if it comes down that we have an opportunity to work together and help you implement some technology, obviously, we're happy to do that. But I [00:35:00] really just love, we're at that very education and awareness stage where we're just trying to tell everybody the story that, hey, this is a problem. I know you've had the problem. Like you said, Julie, you've experienced this. There's a way to resolve this and let's all get together and solve this problem. 

Julie Groves: Great. Well, I thank you three for being here today. It's been such a helpful discussion. And here's hoping that you don't have any water issues that you have to deal with in the coming future. So. 

Bret Bush: Here, here. 

Julie Groves: And this wraps another episode of URMIA Matters. 

Narrator: You've been listening to URMIA Matters. You can find more information about URMIA at www.urmia.org. For more information about this episode, check out the show notes available to URMIA members in the URMIA Network library.